Craigslist Erotic Services Section: Happy Ending Massages?
By composed
Up against a well-publicized murder trial, Craigslist founder Craig Newmark says he will not shut down the Erotic Services section of the Craigslist Website. A Boston University med student is charged with the murder of a massage therapist he met through the Erotic Services portion of Craigslist and met in a hotel. What's going on in the long-controversial Erotic Services section at Craiglist? It's not too hard to figure out.
Having surfed surly Websites for a while, I am confident in stating that "open minded" is code for "anything goes." And a "Grecian Goddess" is someone who will take part in, well, unconventional acts. And the ad above is just one of the literally thousands of variations. Women promising to "make you spew on my XXX's" and ladies offering "whatever you want" for 200 "roses" ("roses is code for dollars) to "generous gentleman." Many of these ads are clearly solicitations for prostitution.
Newmark claims that the police and the Craigslist community, who can 'flag' ads that violate the site's rules, already monitor the ads to make sure the illegal stuff stays out. Obviously he has not taken a close look at his own site recently. It is replete with clear offers of prostitution.
All of that said - the issue to me is not sex being for sale on Craigslist. I think this sort of thing should be legal. I could care less if Craigslist somehow skirts around prostitution laws and essentially condones what the establishment considers crime. The real issue here is that someone apparently died as the result - no matter how direct or indirect - of a post they made to Craigslist. This is where the controversy sits... and this is what must be dealt with.
Should Erotic Services be Removed?
My inclination is to say that Craigslist should have to do little more than what it is doing now. I have a hard time blaming the site for larger societal problems. Curtailing Craigslist and essentially blaming them for a murder they did not commit feels like a band-aid approach. Instead of addressing a root cause, we look for some intermediary scapegoat. The fact is that a young lady willingly posted an ad on Craigslist in a section notorious for being a marketplace of escorts and happy ending massage therapists. And a man, one of many I am sure, replied. Allegedly one particular reply was from a person who did something heinous. This is beyond sad. But how is it any different from a street walker getting killed in a dark alley by a john? It really isn't. The venue that plays a role in facilitating consensual sex that rarely turns into death or abuse should not be fingered here. Should we shut down public space in big and small cities alike because girls could be working the streets there?
The problem is with people. I am not sure why one person kills another. I could never do it. But I am enough of a thinker to realize that there are very real and deep reasons why it happens. People have issues... some of these issues disturb them greatly... and, as a result, they victimize others. We need to get to the root causes of why these things happen. Are we open enough as a society to begin with so that we can deal with what emotionally dogs a person before they are taken to the point where they can kill and/or hurt others as a result? Of course I make an assumption here that something psychological is at play. It really does not matter... Craigslist is not what prompts a person to kill. If Craigslist is taken away, killing or abuse or prostitution, for that matter, will not stop. Again, root causes not band-aid, shallow finger-pointing approaches.
The other problem is that Craigslist - likely due to its sheer size and popularity - is being almost solely implicated. A simple Internet search reveals dozens of sites that explicitly review and allow ad postings by escorts and 'massage therapists.' These sites pull no punches, even speaking openly on message boards about police efforts to bust those seeking or offering prostitution.
Comments
Very well said. I think that any open marketplace like Craigslist is susceptible to these kinds of abuses. I can make a fake ad selling other kinds of illegal services, and it would be extremely difficult to weed out all of them.
The price we must pay for participating in such open marketplaces, is to be more responsible for our own safety. We should do our own research and use our own Spidey-sense before agreeing to a deal from some stranger.
We get a lot of illegal stuff sent to us over e-mail as well. This type of thing is difficult to regulate and going down this path is a very slippery slope.
Good comments. I mean if we want things like free speech, wacky Internet sites, and an open society... we have to be willing to also have the stinky flip sides of those things - jerks, people being taken advantage of, the threat of terrorism, etc... for most good things we desire, there is a potentially annoying, if not out right scary side B.
Good hub! It could have been an ad for a vacuum cleaner or car for sale....the psycho shows up and sucks someone to death, or runs over them with their own car.....just pays to be careful in general. Don't burden Craigslist with policing every ad. Also you list an ad from LA...just across the line in Nevada the oldest profession is alive and well and Legal....been to Las Vegas lately?
I agree, R. Blue. I lived in Vegas for a short time. I am not sure it is legal throughout Nevada. Maybe just in Clark County or something? Someone will know.
Nah...whole state I believe.
not that there's anything wrong with that... !
What's a guy to do when wifey has a headache....right???
BC...come to America and we'll explore all Nevada has to offer...wooo hooo
You don't get news from America???
It is illegal in Clark County (Vegas) It's only legal in licensed brothels (currently 8 of nevada's 16 counties) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Nevad
thanks... i lived in LV and thought it was illegal there. whenever i was propositioned it was on the down low. but, even so, as you say it is only legal in brothels.
Great article.
isnt it the old age theory of marketing
demand and supply
majority must want it or it wouldnt be so popular I guess
It's like the other white meat.
It's the other STIMULUS PACKAGE !
I think it should be removed unless there are stricter parental controls. As for adults, there's no stopping them.
I would recoomend to the man who used/will use this service: just be loyal to your wife. Build a good family and live with good neighbours and partners. I think this is probably a wrapped prostitution service.
NO
This is a great Hub. I agree that the site shouldn't be blamed for what happened... I'm sure someone could be solicited through other venues, including the newspaper classifieds. As for those who advocate stricter parental controls, it's hard to regulate that on the Internet.
Thanks for the nice comment, glassvisage.
There are PLENTY of other venues. I want to do a hub on them and might, but I have to dance around the issues of it being a bit out there sexually (as in explicit).
The young man who was shot in East Palo Alto is the son of one of our hubbers, Dorsi. She did a Hub on it last year--http://hubpages.com/hub/My-Son-Got-Shot-In-The-Hea
BTW could you please post the phone # of the blonde?!
wow. just horrible.
If you start banning this service we will end up like China!! As you say, there are hundreds of classified ad sites escorts would turn to. Craigslist might as well keep the traffic. An Escort will always put herself in a degree of risk, but this can be minimized when they meet clients e.g. having a driver wait outside etc.
"It's the other STIMULUS PACKAGE !"
Yeah! Sounds right. Stimulus package. . .
I'm a cab driver in Las Vegas and what I really hate is the hookers are lousy tippers.! They are everywhere though and craigslist is full of girls selling their bods. I don't think just because of one instance the whole section should be shut down. This really doesn't happen very often. They'll just go somewhere else anyway, mabey to the street where the police wont be able to track the killer.
Sometimes it seems people do some amazing acrobatics to connect two non-related points.
As you said, are we going to close down public space for the sake of prevention? I mean seriously, what happens next? The dating section has to go because a woman thought she met Mr. Right but he turns out to be Mr. Domestic Violence?
Nice hub.
Great dialogue you've started. I’m not sure how I feel about shutting down the space. CL has so many great uses, it's a shame it has come to this. God Bless the victim and her family.
The difference with having someone rip you off when you buy a car or get phoney ads for an apartment is that there are no legit ads on that subject (erotic services). Every ad is for some type of sex. At least I can browse for an apartment listing and go and see apartments or see cars. What legit service is an erotic service? Phone sex? Then call it that. Then the pros won't advertise there.
The bigger issue is that women should be allowed to do with their bodies what they choose. All this site does is cheapen sex, cut out the middle man (who by the way make sure their girls are safe), help the degenerate pimp as now they can post free ads and make it like shooting a barrel of fish for law enforcement. ROUND'EM UP BOYS. Who btw get all the free sex they want when they make a bust. Very selective prosecution dosent help either. Remember Elliot?
What about Elliott?
Great comments by everyone.
I think the crux of the matter is that we concentrate on band-aid solutions and the short term problems we face as opposed to looking at and critically dealing with root causes of what ails us.
Great hub .CL has so much great uses ,why did it came to this..
good
I do not approve of these practices but shutting down the section will do little good. If they do not use Craigslist they will just use or make another site for this purpose.
Where there's a will, there's a way...who cares? If it's not CL, it'll be somebody else! :)
Hey, if they had met in a bar would people be demanding the bar be closed?
Yes, you are right. Fault is in the user not CL is responsible for what happened afterwards.
I don't think a few bad apples should spoil it for everyone. I hav never used the erotic section so it doesn't really matter to me so...whatever. I do use craigslist quite often from finding musicians, mechanics, and other services.
Just a few days ago, my wife and I had an odd experience with a massage service posted on craigslist. Please read http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Ol-Rub--Tug
see a link given belowhttp://hubpages.com/profile/payal76
well when a girl wears what you call "guy clothes" she wears them in a girly way ie. if she wears jeans they should be form fitting, if its a tee shirt again form fitting shows her shape, if she wears a button up its cut in a way that accentuates her assets while having a feminine texture such as lace or ruffles. girls can wear boy clothes as well and not be "gay" but if they are baggy boy jeans and a loose boys shirt and a ball cap with boy sneakers they im probably gunna think she is a lesbian. just like if a guy wears clothes made for women. if a guy wore a skirt it better be a kilt or yea im gunna think its gay because women's clothes are feminine and if a guy wants to be feminine he is gay. there is a big difference between feminine and metro. metro may be ok for some but feminine is for females.
It's a pity that erotica is so esily available on the Internet for anyone to access. There should be a way to block them from personal PC's
I saw a documentary that was saying brothels are now conducted out of people's homes so it's really hard to shut down and what's more, they use services like Craigslist to advertise!
Craigslist, and I do use it often, has other problems as well. Too many cars, boats, bikes, and household goods are sold there in a misleading manner.
For a while there one particular poster was selling boats that he didn't actually own. Criagslist did almost nothing to stop him despite numerous complaints. In fact the fellow was arrested, attempting to sell a boat when the real owner showed up and called the police.
The help section is "manned" by volunteers, not actual Craigslist employees. The problem, of course, is that anyone seeking help is more likely to be abused than actually helped. Most galling is the "caveat emptor" these "volunteers" love to quote.
"Don't like the deal you saw on Craigslist? Too bad; let the buyer beware."
Craigslist has problems with hair on them. Adult Services is just a small (very small) part of the problem.
To be fair, I think this is just a matter of a site getting away from it's creator.
We personally do not use Craigslist due to the crazy clientel it brings but just to add that they did in fact shut down the erotic section here but just before they did, they opened an adult section. Wow, it is the same thing! Lol! I guess they just wanted to get the erotic section out of view since there was so much media over it. They just opened an adult section right under erotic before they shut it down. It is all for publicity. The owner is doesn't care what is on there. In fact, there is an agency here that keeps stealing people's pictures off myspace and using their faces on Craigslist. I reported one of them because it happened to be my friend who had no idea of it. Also, I came across another lady that had her picture up there by the same service and reported it. The agency hasn't been banned from the site and still posts fake pics! I doubt the web owner can check all fifty states in all categories but I don't think he/she cares because it is getting them more hits.
Hey all of the girls came to exoticagirls.com
sorry Craig NewMark
I like this HUB and will refer to it on my new HUB about Craig's List I like your moderate and sensible tone. I am a little meaner. It is a damn shame that Craig's List was attacked this way.
I don't understand how abortion, which is essentially killing someone is considered "a woman's right to choose", yet prostitution, which is essentially providing temporary love and affection for profit is somehow a bad thing. People need love, some people have to pay for it, for many different reasons.
Second, there's just bad people in this world who want to hurt you and take your stuff, and there's not a whole lot that can be done about that, and if they don't get you one way, they'll get you another. Its just a sad fact of life.
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nspectorx 3 years ago
For me, the question is should illegal services be allowed on Craigslist, or any other publication. Not just erotic services. Why not a hit-man service, or a car theft service? In those examples the services are illegal. As far as safety is concerned, a person has to be careful. If I respond to an innocent looking ad in a newspaper to buy a widget, the widget seller could turn out to be a killer, too.